Jennifer Yeh, cofounder of Shoott.com, who grew her startup Shoott.com from $800k to $10.2 Million, as a Single Mother

Meet Jennifer Yeh, co-founder of Shoott.com, who grew her startup from $800k to $10.2 Million in revenue in 7 years, all while raising her children as as a single mother. Learn about hacks on starting and succeeding in business even as a single mother.

Key Takeaways:

• Jennifer grew her startup Shoott.com from $800k to $10.2M in revenue over 7 years
• She overcame cultural expectations, divorce, and single motherhood to build a successful career
• Shoot.com offers affordable, accessible professional photography through an innovative business model
• Jennifer's journey demonstrates the importance of resilience, adaptability, and continuous learning in entrepreneurship

Business Insights and Advice

• Do thorough market research before starting a business
• Don't take challenges personally - view them as problems to solve
• Know your strengths and weaknesses - outsource or find partners to complement your skills
• Be willing to pivot and adapt your business model based on customer needs
• Having a co-founder provides crucial support and different perspectives

Personal Growth and Lessons

• Therapy, especially EMDR, helped process childhood trauma and build confidence
• Learned to set boundaries and prioritize her own needs
• Realized the importance of physical activity for mental wellbeing
• Developed resilience through facing and overcoming multiple challenges

How to get in touch with Jennifer Yeh:

https://www.shoott.com/

https://www.instagram.com/shoottphotos/?hl=en

https://www.tiktok.com/@shoottphotos

https://www.facebook.com/shoottphotos

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Transcript

 Hey everyone, it's Christina Driscoll, host of this She's Brave podcast. I'm so glad you're here with me. I did not start out brave at all, but I learned that we can do brave things one small step at a time. I wanna get brave women's voices out there in the world and inspire women to find their own bravery within themselves a year and a half later.

I'm in the top one and a half percent of all podcasts globally. I've interviewed amazing women who've overcome and accomplished so much to live the life of their dreams. If they can do it, you can do it too, and so can I. Let's go. 

 As a woman and as a mother. How the heck do you do it all? Well, today's guest has done just that. Jennifer. Yay. Yes. Her last name is Yay. Yay, Jennifer. And it's spelled YEH. Hey Jennifer, how are you? Yes, I'm doing well. Thank you so much for having me. Oh my gosh. Your life is amazing. your last name just fits in perfectly, but you right?

Yes, 

totally. Okay, let's get back to it. Jennifer Yay is the co-founder of shoot, S-H-O-O-T t.com. She took her startup from 800,000 to 9 million in revenue. Her journey has taught her resilience and multitasking. She's also the mom of three children. Okay. Jennifer, when you reached out to me via email yourself directly mm-hmm.

Not through, through any scheduler or anybody else, I was very, very impressed right away , and it was a very short email. You just said a few things about yourself, but I went, holy smokes. This woman is very accomplished. How the heck does she do it? We need to have her on She brave. We need to find out her secrets.

Okay. Now lastly, from launching a children's clothing line to negotiating with Fortune 500 companies, every step has been a testament of courage and adaptation. Welcome, welcome. Jennifer. Woo. Yes. Yay. Yay. Yay. We said it at the same. I know, right? Oh my gosh. You are a powerhouse to be reckoned with, and I think that.

We all can learn from you, including me, not just my, my audience, but me too. I'm really, really excited for today. So , I don't always do this, but you're obviously very driven, you're very ambitious, you've accomplished a lot. Tell me about your childhood. 

Hmm, yeah. Yes, let's start there.

All right. So as you can see, I don't know if viewers can see, so I'm Asian and a lot of the stereotypes about growing up in Asian families are very true in the sense that, you know, my parents were also immigrants. So we came into the world with parents who we  Really emphasized us being successful and their definition of success is a little different than what a lot of people would view that now, or what we eventually kind of form for ourselves.

So it was a lot about, you know, getting really good grades, making sure that we always kind of take the traditional safe path, whether it be for careers, whether it be with our friends, like anything. Interesting. Yeah, it was all about safety. And if you think about, you know, a lot of Asians and the historical, you know, experiences, a lot of it was about survival and just being safe and just surviving.

Absolutely. So a lot of my childhood was really centered around that. Um, you know, the push to be excellent was more so that we could, really be safe in our own environment so that we could survive, make enough money and not have to worry about having a roof over our heads or having enough to eat.

So all of that was in service of that. So my childhood was very much. Focused on just like results, and there's pros and cons to that. I would say, 

you know, I was gonna say, Jennifer, we could have like a whole episode on your childhood. Absolutely. Probably. Because here's the thing, it's not today's topic, but I am deeply curious about digging deep more into that, but , we're not gonna do that today.

Yes. That being said, I just have one quick question about it. 

Mm-hmm. 

Have you raised your children in a similar manner, or are you raising them a little bit differently? 

Mm, I'm definitely raising them differently. Okay. And it does tie into a little bit of my work because I had to struggle and grow a lot out of what I believed about myself based on my childhood.

Lots of therapy, lots of EMDR therapy, which I highly, highly recommend. It's been life changing. Can, can you 

break that down because I don't actually know what EMDR therapy is? Yes. 

So I can't remember exactly what it stands for, but basically it's a type of like somatic therapy, and the basis of that is you're combining.

You know, your usual talk therapy and recollection of different memories and feelings and combining that with somatic or physical movements. And the theory is that when you do that, when you have those physical movements, you can rewire your brain so that it no longer always responds from that kind of lizard part of your brain where it's just automatic response that you've learned through trauma.

But instead, you have a lot more agency to regulate what you're feeling and make decisions on how you want to respond. And that has been life changing in terms of like confidence, being able to even reach out through an email saying like, Hey, this is who I am. Because in the past you might have believed in.

For me, I was very much told, like, put your head down. You, you are not maybe good enough. Like, you know, don't pretend to be something you're not. All of that stuff, right, all kind of plays into that. And that kind of therapy can really help you break it because you can only intellectualize things so far.

You can't intellectualize your trauma away. So you have to combine that with other methods to really holistically heal. 

I love that. I'm gonna repeat that. You can't intellectualize your traumas away. That is really, really good. 

Interesting. 

Yeah. I love it. We to do that. 

Right? We'll read books, which is great.

Nothing wrong with that. Mm-hmm. But then we'll just try to think our way out of it. If I just think this way, see things this way, maybe I'll be normal or I feel normal. Mm-hmm. But mm-hmm. Try that for many years. Eventually it breaks down. It's not sustainable. 

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it makes me , wanna try it, you know, I'm just deeply curious and I'm like, oh, EMDR, like, I've been hearing more and more about it and mm-hmm.

From my guests and I think, I think it's something I might wanna try. 

Yeah. Love it. Hey, you guys 

listening out there. Give it a go. Let's give it a go. 

Yeah, definitely give it a go. You go. You don't like it. You don't have to continue, but yeah. You don't know until you try, right? 

Yeah. Yeah. Love it. Love it.

. Okay, so you're raising your kids a bit differently.  But I'm assuming that the way you were raised did help you be very driven. Mm-hmm. So you go off to college, like what did you major in and what was your vision at that point? 

Mm-hmm. Yes. So actually right before college, I was in a specialized, uh, music program at a conservatory down in Baltimore, um, the Peabody Conservative music.

So I know that 

one. Yeah. It's very, very well renowned. It's, yes, yes. But my 

path was very much music, like I did piano, violin, and composition. So I thought I was \, going to go down that path. I did well in it. And then I remember my senior year of high school, I was looking, all my friends were getting to Julliard and other really, you know, top music schools and I was like, you know, I don't really know if this makes me happy.

Um, so I was like, you know what? I only have one life. I think I wanna explore something different. This is all I've known since I was young. There must be more out there and I don't wanna, I. Box myself in. So that's when I decided to try something completely different that I didn't feel that confident in.

So I went to college, did not know what I wanted to do because I never really explored other interests that I had. 

Oh yeah. So 

I actually. Went in and decided to do economics, not because I liked economics or enjoyed the math that went behind it, but because that was the major, that, from what I saw, gave me the most flexibility In terms of what other classes?

Classes. Good for you. 

I, 

I loved 

economics. yeah, I was a business major, but, I did a double minor in economics in French, but I was only two classes away from being a major in economics. That's how much I loved it. Yeah. Did you end up enjoying it? 

So, no. No. Interesting. I, I did not, and I think, uh, I learned a lot about myself.

Through those years, it was very difficult because I really had to struggle, you know, to get the good grades and whatnot, and I felt like I all of a sudden went from being very good at everything I did to being very bad at everything that I did. Interesting. So it really made forced myself to really evaluate what I was basing my self-esteem on.

Yeah. And who I was as a person, like without those accomplishments, who am I? Yeah. 

Yeah. So college 

was definitely a very growing period for me, and I realized at that point too, because that major allowed me a lot of freedom to also pick to do other classes. I took my first web development class there and I realized how much I loved design and doing things that were more technical.

Now, I didn't change my major because by the time I did that, it was much later and I didn't have enough time to change. But that really planted the seed of how then my career has shifted from that to what it is today. 

Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. So after college, , what was your first job and how mm-hmm.

How did things go from there? 

So after college I originally wanted to be a teacher. I love children, so I was initially offered to work in New York City, um, in one of the schools to do just that. I also, though, at the same time, got married very young, I think way too young. And at that time, uh, my partner at that time did not want me to work, so he's like, oh, just try staying at home.

It was a very conservative, kind of religious sort of thing that I was in at the time. So I tried it for a day. I was like, I, I can't do this. I can't just stay home. You know? There are people who like that, but for me, I felt like I needed to be stimulated intellectually to feel Yeah. Good about myself and I, 

yeah, and I think also, especially if you're a young woman and you've been educated, you've gone through college, it would be very, very difficult to be a stay-at-home mom at that point.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Yeah. So then was so desperate to get out. Basically took the first job that I got an offer on, which was doing web development. And from there on, I kept on learning a lot about it myself. Started my own freelance thing on the site, just doing little projects for friends and people in acquaintances.

So I started there. Yeah. Okay. So, and then really didn't apply my econ major really at all.

 But no, it comes in different forms. Right. It teaches you something different. So 

It does. It does, for sure. Okay. Well, cool. So, you've done a lot. Okay. Mm-hmm. So you did mention, I started, you know. Working on some things on the internet and mm-hmm.

Social media and that kind of thing. Um, doing things for friends , when was your like, first sort of official business and what was it and how did it get started? 

Yeah, , okay, so a little bit of backstory. So I worked for that web company for a little bit. Then we moved because my husband at the time also changed jobs, and I became a stay at home mom actually at that point.

Mm. Started having kids and I was like, you know, I really wanna make sure that I'm there for my children. there was a certain way that I wanted to raise them and I felt like I needed to be present for that. At the same time, I also knew for myself that I needed. Something to stimulate. So I didn't go crazy and I wanted to make sure that I didn't quote to just live for them, but that I also took care myself.

That for you definitely. And also the kids could see that, especially if I have a daughter, which I do, that she would understand that there's nothing wrong with staying at home. There's nothing wrong with having a carrier. There's nothing wrong with having both. And that's a choice that she can make on her own.

But I have to model that. Right? So, um, when I was a stay at home mom, my actually very first job was opening up an Etsy shop. So my daughter loved dresses. I wanted to be frugal and save money. So I was like, well, I've always wanted to learn how to sew, so maybe I can combine sewing with doing a little bit business.

So I first started sewing, gave it to my daughter. She loved it. And I just started taking pictures for fun. And then one day, this maybe honestly like two weeks in, I was like, you know, I just wonder if people would like it. , I'm curious, but that requires putting yourself out there. But Etsy was still pretty new at the time, so I decided to just open a store and just throw it up there and just see what happens.

Cool. And 

within two hours it sold. So I was like, oh, okay. That's so cool. Maybe, maybe this is a thing. Yeah. So I did Etsy for about three years and that was really my first foray into entrepreneurship. I would say the freelance stuff was kind of, but it was a lot of friends and family. like, these were customers that didn't know me and found me and actually liked what I did.

So obviously from that I was running the whole thing by myself. I did everything from customer service to obviously designing the dresses, sewing the dresses at night. I was my own sweatshop workshop. So that was fun and Wow. Learning how to package, learning how to talk to people who wanted, that's a lot.

Your full self, that's a yes. Yeah, that's a lot. But I loved it. A 

lot of skills. A lot of skills. You had to learn. Mm-hmm. Market yourself. You had to learn how to put yourself out there. That's like half the battle of being an entrepreneur. Yes. In my opinion. 

Yes. And then learning how to do  certain things.

Um, I would have people write in saying, Hey, I see that you do, you know, sleeveless dresses? Do you do sleeves? And I would say yes, even though I've never done sleeves. And in my mind I was like, you know what? I can figure this out. I can Google, I can learn what a good way to push myself to do something new.

Yeah. 

So, yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. That's so cool. it was like business school on steroids, like the real business school. Yes. 

Right. And for me, I learned very much like in real life  I'm not really a textbook learner. Yeah. Which I think why I struggled more in college. Yeah. 'cause of that.

Like, you gimme a project, I can figure it out in like 10 minutes, but outside of that, it's just boring because I can't really imagine how to apply it. 

I think we learned. The best by just doing. Yeah. I mean I, I've taught a couple of podcasting classes and really, really emphasized that when I took a podcasting class, that was how I learned.

You just have to get out there and do it and make the mistakes and just do it. You have to be brave. You have to be brave. You have to be brave. That's kind of how she's brave was born too. Yeah. Was like, you have to put yourself out there. You have to be brave  I believe to live your authentic life is, takes a lot of bravery and I think a lot of people like stay in their comfort zone.

They don't go outside of it because it's hard. You have to be brave. Right? 

Yeah. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So after the Etsy store experience, , that was about three years. And I'm sure, like what I said, I can't even imagine like. , You would've learned so, so much Yes.

About running a business, like in a really good way. Yeah. And that's kind of an interesting way to look at it. Like if there's like moms out there listening right now, who, or even if you're not a mom, but you're, like, I just don't like my career. I'm an accountant. 

Mm-hmm. You 

know, hey, like starting something like an Etsy store may not be the end goal.

Maybe it's not like your dream job, but something like that to me, really screams how to run a business. Mm-hmm. You know, and learning how to run a business properly. 

Yeah, for sure. For sure. 

Yeah. Interesting. I'm, yeah, I'm glad you agree with that. that's what I would think. so what changed after three years?

Mm-hmm. So I basically worked until. The day that I gave birth to my last and third child. After that, I was like, all right, three children, I really need to focus on them. And it was also around that time that I got a divorce. So when that happened Oh, wow. Was like, so you had a, 

you had a baby and not long after you went through divorce.

Yes. That sounds incredibly difficult. 

it was very hard. And , that decision for me was also very difficult because again, like with the culture that I , grew up in, you know, divorce was very taboo, but I was beginning to learn a lot more about myself and what I needed and learning to really set my own boundaries and understand what my needs were.

So a lot of that was coming together, I did start going to see a therapist at time. That was actually my first with therapy. I think that was very helpful in helping me recognize what was happening around me and recognize, okay, so I, my pattern. 

Yeah. I just wanna clarify, you started going to counseling and then realized that you needed a divorce after that.

Is that so? I was actually feeling really suicidal at one point. Okay. And I remember when that started happening, I was like, this is very not me. I'm not usually like this. Okay. So my first thought was like, there's something wrong and I need to talk to somebody about it before. It becomes something I can't manage.

So when I started going to therapy, that was when my therapist actually helped me realize a lot of things that were happening in my marriage. That was really unhealthy. 

Yeah. So 

at that point, I had to have the courage to even talk to this with my partner and be like, Hey, why don't we try marriage counseling?

We tried it for two years. It did not end up working out, but , um, it was really a time of growth. It was very scary because even though I had my own business and ran things, I was very financially dependent on him. Right. So at that point, I remember, um, there's a lot of other things involved in terms of like childhood trauma, abuse, things like that, which I won't get into now, but I really had to confront a lot of those things myself and decide.

What kind of life do I wanna live? And what kind of life do I want my kids to live? What kind of environment do I want them to be in? So I was like, if I make this decision, this means I'm gonna have to a go back to work, figure out how to support me and my three kids. And I wanted to give them the same level of life they were having.

I I wanted to minimize impact on them as much as possible. And I knew that if I did this, I would get a lot of scrutiny from, at least initially, from family, friends, the church I was part of then. So there was a lot of things I was up against. I just knew everybody and everything would be telling me this is the wrong path to go down.

But like deep down I was like, I know this is the way I have to go. I know at some point somebody has to break a lot of these unhealthy cycles and if it has to be me, so be it. So it was a very hard decision, but I did it, went through it. Kudos to any woman who's having gone through that. It is a rough period.

So went through that was so much stronger out from that. And then yeah, from then on out, it was kind of like, I never looked back. No regrets. that's fantastic to 

hear. I do have a question about that.  Who was your support system during that time? Yeah. because, like you've alluded that some kind of a religious organization mm-hmm. Um, Um, that maybe didn't serve you so well. Mm-hmm. that was kind of part of it too. And yeah, so to have to leave a community is really, really traumatic. Like, that's a big part of it.

Like when people leave, the Mormon church or, I, I interviewed a woman, Julia Hart, who has a, um, Netflix series mm-hmm. My Unorthodox life, and she left, you know, the, Jewish Orthodox community. And a lot of people end up actually taking their own lives because they're so used to that community, and then that community is gone.

Yeah. Yeah. So, 

so you had to leave that community. So, so I'm just deeply curious about how you got the support that you needed. 

Yeah, so my support really ended up coming, um, from my family members. Uh, and I also had a couple really good friends. So one of the friends that was a, you know, pivotal in my journey through that is actually the co-founder that.

I work for now. Nice. So we're best friends from college. Okay. So she was also there to help me through that period. But it was a very small circle. I didn't talk to too many people about it. I had a therapist. Super helpful to have that. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

But I think for me, it was really important for me to keep my eye on the prize.

And I think it was easy for me in the sense that for me, what was most important at that time was my children. Now I know that there's a lot of arguments out there saying, Hey, divorce is bad for your kids. But then when I compared that to staying in a very, what I deem very toxic environment, I was like, I think this is actually better.

Because if we do that, I could also see it going down a very dark path. so I think what really pulled me through was obviously my family, a few close friends, and also like my children. I'm like, I'm doing this for them, I'm doing this for. Generational cycle breaking, like Yeah. If other people aren't brave enough, I'll be the first one to do that.

Beautiful, beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. I think this is the really key point because I think that a lot of us think we need to have this huge support system, but mm-hmm. I think it can be just totally fine and you've proved to this, you didn't have a lot of people, but you still had the support that you needed.

And maybe that's all we need is one or two in a therapist that that's okay. That's okay. Yes. And it works. Exactly. that's really encouraging to hear. Yeah, 

yeah, yeah. I also ran a lot. Every time I would feel bad I would go out and just run a mile around my neighborhood.

Wow. And I got very fit. But that also I think has to do with, you know, that kind of somatic processing. 'cause while you're running, you're processing all the things and that's a good kind of physical release so you don't hold it in your body. 

Wow. There's a really good 

book called The Body Keeps the Score.

But yes, 

I've heard about it. Yeah, I haven't read it though. 

Terrific. So from that point on, learned how important it is to actually process your emotions. You know, I grew up, you know, really being taught that, hey, you don't cry, , you suppress it, it's okay. You just bear and grit through it. And that is obviously not healthy.

And to have to really learn not to do that anymore was definitely a process, but it was very good. Right. So that was sort of my foray into like, oh, actually physical activity isn't just. Sports or feeling good about yourself, it actually helps your mental wellbeing. And that sounds really basic, but for me, that was like a revolutionary thing.

Sure. That I just never really put two and two together until Yeah. Until I had to go through that. 

Yeah. Yeah. I love your story, Jennifer. I mean, I feel like you are so many women's story, you know mm-hmm. Across North America, like Yeah. Well, and the world really, uh, it's such a common theme. Mm-hmm. And I think women can find ourselves, we can find ourselves in a marriage, you know, that doesn't work with kids.

And Yeah. Um, I think in today's world, we finally are realizing, you know, we want to live our life to the best, and we deserve better. And sometimes that means leaving a marriage, you know? Mm-hmm. 

Yeah. Different for everybody, but 

yeah. 

Yeah, 

yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Okay. So. yeah. What happened with your finances, with, you know, you get divorced and , I mean of, course \, you know, there's some payments and things like that from divorce mm-hmm.

When you have children. But, um, yeah. , What happened next? 

Yes. So I remember thinking, okay. Obviously I,, I'm going to have to cut down my budget, but I kind of challenged myself instead of thinking about pulling back really hard, I thought about, let me try to think the opposite direction.

How do I make more money? Because that's actually my goal. So instead of thinking like, oh, we're gonna be constrained, and that's kind of in my mind a more negative way of viewing it. It's like, well, how do I actually go positive? So - honestly, to this day, I think I was crazy, but somehow I pulled through, I basically worked four jobs, so I took the first job I got, 'cause I needed the money.

, I basically had to start back ground level as an entry level worker in actually a recruiting department. I was like, fine. That was like, you know. Space entry, pay level. But I was like , at least that's something. And I had negotiated my contract to be like, Hey, I can do this, but I want to be able to leave the office at two 30 so I can still continue to be home.

So in a way, my kids don't actually feel the impact. That was really important to me. So I did that, and then I also started doing Airbnb outta my home when my kids were not with me. So we basically had the kids, uh, 50 50 split time. So when they weren't here, 

what a clever idea. I was just gonna say, what a clever idea.

I would never think about that. , These are all fantastic tips for single moms, like what you said most of the time. Yeah. Yeah. most of the time. I mean,  I have a lot of. , Mom, friends, lots and lots, and many of them are divorced and most of the time , it's a 50 50 split. Mm-hmm.

Which is actually, I think, really the best way to go because mm-hmm. Of things like this. Like, but who would think, oh wow. When my kids aren't here, I could have an Airbnb. Yeah. So however you did it, but you know, one week off. Yeah. Or one on the week that I don't have my kids, I'm gonna make my Airbnb available.

What a genius idea. Yeah. I love it. And I 

didn't think it was going to work. I was like, who wants to come to my city? Like, who? Who is traveling here and looking for, because you're in 

Rochester. Were you in Rochester? Yeah. Okay. But you 

know what? I was booked pretty much every day. I had it open. 

So were people living in your home with you renting a room?

Was that the situation? 

Yeah, I was desperate. Yeah. Wow. I have an office actually it's this room that I'm in right now. It was a bedroom before, and I was like, great. It has its own bathroom off the side cause I didn't want them going upstairs where me and my kids' rooms were. Mm-hmm. I was like, this is pretty secluded, so , I'm just gonna try.

So I first started doing it for really cheap, like 30 bucks a night. Then I was like, all right, there's a lot of demand. , So this is also where the business comes in, right? . Let me just try and test out what the, price point would be. So I would just kept on raising and I figured out basically which times of the year people were willing to pay more.

And I also figured out that price point where, hey, if you set it to a little bit higher, you're gonna get a certain type of person. ' obviously it's your home. And for me, I was still staying in my home, so I didn't wanna just take anyone. So there's a lot to learn there in terms of how to screen people and all of that.

So that was my second job on the side. Right? Then I also picked my freelance gig back up again. So I was doing a lot of social media planning, marketing, website design, and I would just go to networking groups and connect with people and do small projects here and there. Basically, whatever I could get, I would do, and because I do things pretty quickly, they weren't too.

Difficult for me. 

So I have a question about \. Developing that business. Yeah. You said a lot of networking groups. Were these in person networking groups? Yes. So you give an example. This was back like 

20 

16, 20 

17. 

Okay. So things have changed, but yet they haven't because I think that in-person networking can still be really powerful.

Absolutely. So tell us a bit more about that. Absolute yes. Yeah. 

So I did the most basic thing. I joined, I think it was the young professionals in my city. Nice. And I saw that they had events on Facebook. I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna show up. I have no idea what this is about.

Never had to do this before, but in order to figure out what to do I have to do something that's scary. Right. So I started attending them, started talking to people, and then from there out I would just take on product. They would ask and I would price , my services. Fairly low at first, right?

, Just to get that, um, stable kind of client base so then I can build my portfolio. So I did that throughout time and obviously as my portfolio grew, it was easier and easier to get more clients. And then the fourth thing that I did is, are we down four? Yeah. Yeah. Was I tried to start a business where.

We were using the performance arts to help with team building. So this only last a little bit, but it still generated some income. But because my background is in, you know, classical piano performance and composition, I had a friend at the time who was also a professor for organ studies. So I was like, Hey, with your expertise and my businesses, can we try to market towards other organizations in our area who naturally do team building events but have them do something different.

So we basically were doing things with music and art to help people sort of discover themselves and discover a fun way to do things that were not your usual kind of team building exercises that were maybe more physical. So that was fun. It was, interesting to do. We shut it down after a year because it was really time intensive to run.

But, uh, it was also another source of income. So, 

and it was a, it was a beautiful, yeah, I mean, it was a beautiful learning experience. I absolutely love your journey, Jennifer, because Yeah. I think it's very, very realistic. Like yeah. and it's also very doable for anybody. Mm-hmm. Like the, you're discern you're to be 

very, very good with your time.

I will say like that really tested my limits because Okay. At the same time I was still driving my kids back and forth. Right. And I have to mention that, um,, in the corporate job I was holding, because I was in the recruiting department, I was able to see all the , internal job posts that were coming in.

So I was like, oh, great, I'm gonna keep my eye out for something else that pays more. Mm-hmm. So when I saw the opportunity, I took it interview for. Got it. And that job was very flexible in terms of I could work, I. From home. I didn't have to always be in the office, which was pretty revolutionary at that time.

Before COVID. 

Yeah, before COVID. And 

when it comes to juggling and time management, I would then schedule certain calls where sometimes I will have to drive my kids somewhere, then I would figure out how to make sure I hooked up my system so I could, you know, stop in the parking lot. I would have to plan on my time.

I will wait in the car line while I take this meeting call. So it's a lot of like different puzzle pieces that if you learn to do it well my employer never knew. Right. Because that's the whole point. You don't want it to disrupt the promise that you have for them when you sign on to work for them. So it definitely challenged, for me, I like challenges like that.

I was like, anything is solvable, I just have to figure it out. So I like that. Not everybody likes that. 'cause it can be very stressful. Right. But that's what I had to do. And then I. After doing that for about five years, uh, my best friend from college approached me. She's like, Hey, I'm just starting with a startup.

I feel like you and I really jive really well in terms of our work ethics and our work values. Would you be open to coming on as the COO? I was like, I don't really have experience being the COO, but if you have me more than happy to give this a try again, something new, a good challenge, I wonder if I can do it.

How far can I go to see where my limitations are? So all of that kind of came to fruition because all my past experiences doing those four different things all have really helped and getting our business from what it was to today. And I think in the email I said my 9 million, That was incorrect because actually last year we ended at 10.2 million, so it's actually higher.

Wow. Yeah. Wow. So all of that, it doesn't matter. It's been amazing. Like you just never think that you would end up where you are. Um, and I never thought I would go through this particular journey, but I think it's like every time something new is presented, like it's like, Do it for the plot. Wonder what would happen if I did try something really new and scary. So, yeah. 

Yeah. And all those things were so different and I think they taught you so many different business angles, you know, and the last one didn't work out. And that's, I think, really key too, for people to hear.

Mm-hmm. You know, often we try something. Um, I think it's so easy for people to say, okay, I'm gonna try this thing. Okay. It didn't work. Okay. I'm done. You know, just back for working for somebody else  , I think we don't realize with someone like you who's been really, really successful, know, it wasn't just handed to you.

Yeah. And you had a lot of failure along the way and you had to pivot and adjust. Yes. And. Um, yeah. Like that last business lasted a year. And to be able to have the discretion to know, okay, this particular business isn't working. Mm-hmm. So I, I need to let it go, you know?

Yeah. I mean, 

that's, and when I say something doesn't work, it doesn't necessarily mean that nobody wants it. Yeah. I think you have to kind of decide like, is it worth my time? 

Totally. Knowing 

that where you need to take it. 

Totally. 

Because you have to make decisions. Right. You can't be everywhere all at once.

Yeah. So you have to . Prioritize. And That's hard sometimes, right? Yes. Sometimes that does mean giving up one dream for another. Yes, 

yes. So, so good. . So here you are.  how was that first year of you working with your college bestie? Yeah. Um, I mean, did you still have some of these other things on the side, like the Airbnb and the tech?

The tech probably came really in handy 

Yes. Knowing 

a lot about, you know, how to get yourself out there Absolutely. On the internet. 

Yes. So I would say I actually dropped everything else. 'cause I knew being in a startup would require the majority of my time. I think I might've been doing Airbnb, Airbnb for a little while longer, but for the most part I was like, okay, if we want the startup to work, I knew that would require my like a hundred percent commitment and I couldn't be doing other things, which was fine.

I was okay with that. And. It was really fun. Like, it's always been a dream of ours to work together at some point. It was amazing to kind of see that happen. We went through so many stages of growth, went through so many different challenges. And I will say when you're doing something like that, even if you're starting your own business, having a partner to do that with makes all the difference.

I just cannot imagine having to figure it out. A lot of those things on my own, just the moral support, you know, somebody else to help also take on tasks like that was all very crucial I think, to our success. And I would say the other thing that was really important was that we  held the same values, right?

Yeah. 

We had the same work ethic. We knew what we wanted. We were willing to forego, I guess what you would call traditional work-life balance in order to make it work. Yeah. And work-life balance, I feel like is something that I. Sometimes can be misconstrued, right? Work-life balance can mean different things to different people.

So for me, I realize I loved work, right? But for me, work-life balance is, hey, I wanna be able to do what I love and getting paid so I can survive, but then also take care of my kids. But I didn't need or necessarily want at that time to be able to be going on vacations all the time or buy expensive whatever, or have a lot of time to just garden or shop, I don't know, whatever else people like to do for me.

You were okay with that? My, my hobby was my work. Your hobby. 'cause I was learning so many new things that I wanted to learn in the past, but never really had a project and now this was my chance to do that. So that to me was work life balance. I know it's not for everybody, but Yeah, 

I understand that.

'cause I feel like podcasting is similar in that mm-hmm. , It's like a hobby and sometimes it's maybe not balanced in the traditional sense. 'cause sometimes , it can be very, very time consuming, but , it still can feel balanced because you like it so much.

Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing I just, I wanted to reiterate was a thought came into my head, you know, I think a lot of us wanna be entrepreneurs and. Uh, even I have discovered it's really, really difficult being an entrepreneur. Yeah. especially when you're on your own, , I've worked with various people off and on here and there, , but ultimately it can be a very lonely journey, is what people say.

Oh, yes. The founder journey 

is 

lonely. It is, it is. And you know, what I wanna encourage my listeners out there is to think about the possibility of doing what you did, which is having a partner. Why not? I mean, if you're struggling with entrepreneurship, maybe the real answer is pull somebody else in.

Mm-hmm. And you know, somebody who's got different strengths in you. Again, like I think that emotional support is huge., I think having somebody to bounce things off of, like, where you're like, Hey, I think this is a great idea. And your partner's like. Heck no, we are not doing that.

Yeah, 

reality checks, you're not an echo chamber, right? 

Yeah, yeah, exactly.  So tell us about this business. 

Yes, so it's shoot with two Ts and basically we offer free 30 minute mini sessions our outdoors. So for clients, for users in general, you can go on our website, book a free 30 minute session, and then you only have to pay for the photos you want.

And the way we came about this model was that we wanted to do something for the gig economy, for artists. And when we think about photographers, usually how they work is they work from gig to gig. So for example, they might have a gig Saturday morning, then they have to travel two hours to another location to do another gig for somebody else.

It's very not efficient, it's a pain in the butt. You have to coordinate and make sure all the travel logistics are, you know, set. So we were like, well, how do we make that better? Because at that rate, you can't really make a living out of just photography unless you're extremely established, which is very hard to do and it takes a lot of time.

So we were like, well, what if we aggregated demand into certain locations? Right? So what we do now is , if you go on our website shoot.com, you'll see that we are in 60 cities across the US and then in each city we have a really long list of different, like local parks and hotspots and different dates for those.

So what we do is we basically have clients book back to back sessions. They can go on there, pick the time slot, and what that does is on that day, we send the photographer to, for example, like Central Park in New York City, and they just need to stay in one place. Then clients just come to them.

So it's very, very efficient. Right. Oh, and then, 

see I was imagining you hire a photographer and that photographer might go to a bunch of different places. So the photographer is gonna be in one place. 

Yes. So every weekend, if they want to work and it's great, supplemental income for them, they want to work.

we give them a location, they show up with a camera. They do what they love. They don't have to worry about. Having to coordinate with the customers. 'cause we do all of that work for them. And then because of that efficiency of those back-to-back sessions, we're able to pass that benefit down to the customers in the form of a free session.

Yeah. And then 

what we've also done is because we've gotten really good at knowing who our target audience is and who our target customer is, and we're also very good at picking good photographers who are good fit for our model. Our customers will, uh, buy enough photos that we can actually guarantee our photographers, who our contractors a minimum guarantee of a hundred dollars per shooting hour.

Nice. 

So nice. that's decent. Yes. Yeah. That, that's worth their time. 

Build their portfolio, earn some money. Mm-hmm. We have photographers who are part-time obviously, and they don't work, you know, the entire year, but they work enough. For example, during our holiday season, they make anywhere from 50 to 60 KA year.

So if you have the extra time you wanna do it and you can take clients, it can work out really nicely. Mm. Mm-hmm. 

 Yeah. So when you started, I'm sure it kind of morphed, you know, because that's how businesses and how everything works, everything kind of morphs and changes. You start with one idea and you kind of start testing the waters.

And so, and then you said, this thing works. This thing didn't work. Mm-hmm. And then you kind of go from there. Um. So , what was your business model in the very beginning? Like? Mm-hmm. Was it pretty basic? I would think it would have to be fairly basic. cause it's pretty complex now. It sounds kind of complex to me, like, you know, yeah, you have it set up and running, but I mean, it's not something that you could easily set up really quickly.

Yes, yes. It definitely took a lot of time. So I will say in the beginning we, started with the hook of, Hey, let's do a free session. Okay. Because nobody else in the industry was doing that. 

Okay. So 

originally we started in New York City and we thought that our target audience would probably be influencers.

'cause at that time Instagram was becoming extremely popular. But like while Instagram influencers and models need photos, professional photos, and a lot of them are probably just starting out, they not necessarily have the money to pay. $500, $2,000 upfront for a photographer to take a few photos. 

Yeah.

That's why I've, I've never done it. I've never actually hired professional photographer Yeah. For my podcast, because they all want thousands of dollars. And I'm like, no, no. Yeah, no, I've got pictures on my phone and working. And that was one of 

the things you're like, what do we make professional photography a lot more accessible and affordable to Yes.

And 

affordable. I know. And, if somebody were to hand that to me, especially when I started out, if somebody would've said, Hey, for a hundred bucks, you know. You can buy whatever you want. Yeah, I would've totally taken them up on that. 

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. That's how we felt too. Right? so we did that and we realized that at least the influencer that we're signing up for our sessions would oftentimes not show up, which was wasting our photographers time.

We're like, okay, I don't think this, oh, I never even 

thought about that, but you, about the whole no-show thing. 

Yes. So we obviously have implemented a lot of, you know, different policies and things in there now to protect the photographer's time. But then we were like, all right, if this is not our target demographic, this is not quite working.

Maybe let's try a different demographic. So we're like, okay, well Jersey is right next door. Jersey has a lot of families. Let's just see. At that point, we weren't really sure if that would take off, but once we had a location in Jersey, all the bookings came in. They were like, aha, that's our target audience.

So it's families, families, interesting women going through major. So it took a little while to 

figure that out. 

Yeah, yeah, it did. 

Yeah. Yeah. So how long have you had this company now? Mm-hmm. it's almost gonna be seven years in June. Nice. So, yeah, very soon. Nice. Yeah. Wow. What a journey you've been on.

Yeah. 

What, what advice would you give to my listener out there who is maybe,  thinking about starting up a business? 

Mm-hmm. I would say, the most important thing before you start is to make sure. One, you need to make sure you have your ducks in a row. Meaning when you're starting off with a business, make sure you do your research so that it's almost like expectation management for yourself.

If you go into it saying like, Hey, I think I'm really good at design. I'm really good at making beautiful notebooks. I'm just gonna go and sell them, you're gonna be hit with a surprise because that market is really saturated. And that's not to say that you shouldn't do it, but you should go in there knowing what you're up against so that you don't get discouraged and you know \, how much to keep on going if things don't exactly go your way.

So I think the research, the planning, \ really understanding what's involved is really important to set yourself up for success, right. Nice. Yeah. And then I think the second thing would

be to not take challenges personally. 'cause I think a lot of times if we hit a challenge or if we feel like we're failing that if we take that as like, oh, that must mean I'm bad, or I'm not smart enough, I'm not ambitious enough, that will get you down real fast.

I think the way we've been able to work through a lot of these things, we're like, okay, here's a new challenge. How interesting. I wonder what solutions are out there. Right? This is just a new adventure. Instead of seeing it as, oh my gosh, this must mean. You know, we suck and , we don't wanna do this anymore.

If you start going down that road, your mind \, and your energy isn't focused on actually finding a solution and being creative and adapting and pivoting. You're just feeling bad about it, and that gets you nowhere. 

Yep. 

So I would say those two things are really important. And then I think the third thing is you really have to know yourself.

So being really self-aware of what your strengths are and what your weaknesses are. Okay. Because the things you're good at is what you should be doing for your business. Yeah. And the things that you're not good at, you should either find somebody else to do it for you. Totally 

agree with you. When I started podcasting, I just knew in my heart that I would not make it if I tried to do the technical side of things.

Mm-hmm. I was drowning in overwhelm. , I would get into this space of like. Paralyzation, like being paralyzed by, I don't understand the technical side of things. Yeah. So because I wanted this so bad, I hired it out and I got people to do the tech side of everything, all the tech side. Now I've taken back some of it.

Mm-hmm. And some of it, you know, I still have some help in the background too. But yeah, I mean, knowing yourself and there were other people in my class who were doing it all and \ they could do it, but I knew that I couldn't, that I couldn't, I had to fork over some money.

I had to, yeah. I had to do it that way. And that's okay, but that's okay. It's okay. 

Yeah. Nothing wrong with that. Yeah. 

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Super, super good. , And I like what you said, you know, about failure too, and that's something that I feel like I've learned as well, is, I don't even like the word failure, but.

Falling forward, you know, all these terms we can call it. Um, failure is just basically a learning experience, just gathering information. Yeah. So you basically try something, it doesn't work. And , it's interesting because when we fail, it seems like we develop our courage muscle. Mm-hmm. It's like we fail and then we're like, well, that wasn't so bad.

What's the worst thing that could happen? Yeah. You know, I got through this failure onto the next one. And so That's so interesting too. It's like was a whole book,, a guy wrote about Yeah. Um, learning how to fail, you know? Yeah. Like, and literally setting himself, himself up where he was knocking.

, He was originally from China. His English wasn't very good. Mm-hmm. He lived in Texas and he was knocking on people's. Doors. Mm-hmm. And asking them random things like, um, \, can I come into your backyard and play soccer for 10 minutes? And he was doing it to like develop his resilience and, you know, being okay with people saying no.

And the book is called Rejection Proof, \, if anybody wants to, um, I can't remember the author's name, but , it's called Rejection Proof. And \, it's such a great book because mm-hmm. It just teaches you that truly, if you want to be successful in business and really in life, \ all around, everything's better if we can be rejection proof.

Right? 

Yes. Yeah. Which means 

failing, which means taking those chances. 

Yeah. And not taking it personally. Even if you fail and not taking it doesn't mean that you're a bad person. Yes, yes. Right. I think that all of it, the way we see it, we're collecting data points that points to help us make the next decision.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So how are things going now and \, where do you see yourself going in the future with all this? Yeah, 

so things are going really well this year. We've been able to sustain year over year growth, which is amazing. So right now we're really looking to continue to expand in the US and then hopefully down in the future we might expand into Canada or other English speaking countries, um, that has yet to be seen.

There's a lot of, uh, different logistical things we have to get in order to be able to do that. Yeah. But right now, obviously we haven't. Saturated the American market yet, you know, a lot of people still don't know about us, so \, there's still a lot of work to be done here. And we know that when people use us and try us, they love us.

So we're like, okay, there are more people who can benefit from our service. About 25% of the people who book a session through our site have never done a professional family photo before, for example. Yeah, that's 

super interesting. So, so they're 

like, because maybe they couldn't afford it before or they just didn't know how to go about finding their own photographer and vetting them.

I honestly, 

I, I think there's just a lot of that. Like, I think the problem, like I live in the Seattle area and you know, 

we're in Seattle. 

Oh man. I'm telling you. Yeah. So I I am widowed and three years ago got remarried and the wedding , kind of got outta control, let's put it that way.

Yeah. You know, like more and more people wanted to come. Everybody was so happy for us and it ended up being, you know, 120 people and it was a bigger wedding. And we hired a photographer and, you know, , it was weird because, he was in, uh, Martha Stewart magazine. He was not cheap. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, we spent $6,000 just to get like, basically \, the negatives or whatever, like the prints.

Like, I mean, just like on a stick, you know what I mean? Yeah. Um, that's it. And it was $6,000 and he, messed up a lot of things. Um, my husband, like at the beginning when we were getting ready, my husband , he had his tie loose. Yeah. We were doing like shots around our cute little adorable town of Duval Washington.

Like we have this, yeah. Like one of these grandfather clocks like downtown. We have these old posts and our buildings are charming and old and it's so cute. And we were doing all this stuff and you know, we've got this Valley and hills And, we get all the pictures back and my husband's like, my tie was loosened the whole time.

Yeah. And it was just stuff like that  so in Seattle, I think photographers charge a lot of money. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

And so what happens is it's like all or nothing, you kind of get to this place where you're like, I don't even wanna hire a photographer. That's I think probably why I've never hired anybody.

He probably had 

a bad ex. You felt like he's a bad, and I'm like, 

well, you know, okay, I to pour over thousands of dollars and I don't have that great results. You know? Yeah. Whereas a hundred dollars, , that's okay. Even if they all turn out terrible. Oh, it's, I'm not gonna be cr it's Oh, that's right.

That's free. Yeah. And if you don't like the photos, hundred dollars is for the photographer. Yes. Yes. Um, yeah. No, I mean, that's just. Genius because I just think, again, like what you said, and I think in Seattle it's even worse than a lot of places. Mm-hmm. People have given up. They're just like I'm not hiring a photographer.

It's too expensive. Yeah. And I just, I don't know what I'm getting. I can't commit that to that. 

And then I'll say even for weddings, it's hard, right? So we don't actually do flow blown weddings ourselves. Yeah. Weddings are tough, but we do engagement photos, so what we tell people is our network is a really good way to find the wedding photographer you may want.

So book an engagement shoot. 

Oh, nice. 

And if you don't like the photos, you don't have to go with it. But if you end up really liking your,, experience and you can get engagement photos and you can say like, Hey, what a great 

idea would you like, don't, would you like to photograph my wedding? Yeah. Yeah.

We didn't do engagement photos, but that would've been a brilliant idea to do that. and then again in your case, like , you don't have anything to lose by doing it. 

Yeah. Very little risk and then puts the onus also on the photographer to Yeah.

Also do a good job, not just take the money and run. Right, right, right. So basically it's a win-win situation. Everybody has to work hard. We try to make sure that we do a good job marketing to the right people. We make sure on the other side to get you guys really good photographer. Our vetting process is like a two week long process.

Nice. Very intense. Yeah. That way when you guys go on our site, you know you're gonna get somebody who's qualified, right? Yeah, yeah. With background, checked, all that good stuff. 

Nice, nice, nice. Yeah. Yeah. Jen, \, you're amazing. I just wanna tell you that really, I mean, you are too, \, you know, you may not be famous.

I mean, I have all kinds of people all walks of life. Mm-hmm. \, For me, \, it's just, it's really all about helping women. Like, how can we help women? How can we help women with their health? That's one area where I'm really big on Another one is how can we help women live their best?

Life and meet the potential. So that means having courage, that's where, you know, she's brave. Yeah. Like, and it also, it takes courage to take care of your health even sometimes. Yes. Yeah. Like, so to really be like, pick up the phone, call the doctor, get that check, do that thing. Yeah. and\

, \ I like it relatable. Like , you didn't come from some fancy background where, you know, this was all handed to you on a platter. You started at rock bottom with a divorce mm-hmm. And three kids. And it's such a powerful story. It's just, yeah.\ It really, really is.

And I think we can all do it. 

We can all do it. Yeah. We can all do it. Which I just think is, yeah. I mean, \, the whole purpose \, of she's brave \, is just trying to tell women, Hey, like, how can we improve ourselves through all these different modalities and things, and how can we reach our potential?

And how did this other person live the life of their dreams? Which is what you've done, right? You created the life of your dreams. And I think it's amazing. \, Any last words of advice for my audience? 

Not really. I would just say, yeah, take the chance, be brave and continue to listen to this podcast because I feel like the more women you hear do this, it becomes really inspiring.

Can give you that extra boost if you don't necessarily have the support system. Now, just knowing there is a community out there that even if we don't connect on a daily basis Absolutely. Like energetically we are supporting one another. 

Absolutely. And I think, you know, \, I'm a person who listen to podcasts all the time.

Yeah. the minute I jump in my car because I'm in Seattle. Mm-hmm. I'm dealing with traffic. , I don't mind traffic because I am always learning something new by listening to a podcast. , And I think that the more, , it's a very efficient way to learn and reprogram your, brain.

Yeah. Other than this EMDR, which , I'm gonna check out. 

Yeah. 

But you know. I, I think that by continuously reinforcing, that's why I love podcasts so much. Mm-hmm. By reinforcing, by listening, by hearing stories, we can really rewire , our brains. 

Yeah. Gives you new perspectives, new ideas. Yes, 

yes.

New ideas. You had some amazing hacks today, like your Airbnb. I was like, when you don't have your kids, I would never think of that. Yeah. 

Well when you're desperate. Right. 

So, so good. , This has been so informative and I have enjoyed this so much and I just wanna thank you, Jen, for being so brave to you.

Just like, Hey, my name's Jennifer yay and hello, and here's a little bit about me and I'd love to be on your podcast. Yeah. Girlfriend, you're coming on. 

Exactly. Good to be confident, right? 

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. , year, the essence of it. So thank you for sharing your story. I know there's a lot more to that earlier part in your life.

Um, today we were focusing more about entrepreneurship and your business mm-hmm. 

but, it's all brave and -- it was all good. It was all so interesting and informative and, you've really overcome a lot. So thank you for being willing to be vulnerable. Mm-hmm. And show up , and share your story because I think it's an incredible one.

Oh, thank you. I really enjoyed sharing too. 'cause . It makes me feel connected even though, you know, we're not physically connected, but it's nice. Nice to feel that. 

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks Jen. Thank you.

  Thank you for joining us on the She's Brave Podcast with Christina Driscoll. I hope today's episode inspired you to embrace your courage and step boldly into your own journey. If you enjoyed the show, we'd love to hear from you. Please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform.

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