Author Barbara Burgess on her book "Enough: Finding Peace in a World of Distractions, Hustle and Expectations

Key Takeaways

• The concept of "enough" is about self-acceptance and getting off the ladder of comparison
• Personal development can become its own trap of never feeling "enough"
• Embracing choice, including the choice not to change, builds self-acceptance
• Small acts of bravery in daily life can be as impactful as grand achievements

Connect with Barbara:

www.corluma.com

linkedin.com/in/barbaraburgess1
 

www.beenough.com

The best way you can help The She's Brave Podcast grow and help women around the world is to subscribe, rate and review this podcast on Apple or Spotify.
Leave us a review and rating here: She's Brave Podcast on Apple Podcasts

Connect with Kristina:

She's Brave Podcast Website

Instagram

Facebook

Curious about podcasting? Join Podcast Mastery Facebook Group

This episode is sponsored by Dotted Avenue web design services.
Dotted Avenue created an amazing website for the She's Brave Podcast.

www.dottedavenue.com/shesbrave

Transcript

 Hey everyone, it's Christina Driscoll, host of this She's Brave Podcast. Let's go.

 



.  I am so, so, so, so inspired today, you guys. Today's guest is the author of a book that has impacted me so much. That I did an entire solo episode on it. And you guys, I hate doing solo episodes. Have you noticed that? I hardly ever do them because I don't like doing them.

But check out the May 20th solo episode for CliffNotes version of this interview  because it is so freaking powerful. Um. It really is. And today's guest is Barbara Burgess. Am I saying your last name correctly? Burgess Burg Burgess. Oh, that sounds so much nicer. Not that it does. Burgess. Barbara Burgess.

Okay. Hello, hello, hello. Good to be with. Welcome to You. Barbara is the author of a book called Enough. Okay. Finding peace, not the okay part. Barbara's the author of a book called Enough Finding Peace in a World of Distractions, hustle, and Expectations.  This book has been life changing for me, life changing, and some of it is me going back.

Multiple times and kind of getting even more on a deeper level because on the surface you read it and you say, okay, that makes sense. I get it. , And then you start absorbing it. And you start applying it and it's so, so cool. Um. Barbara. Yeah. I normally do this real big long formal introduction. , I want you to just introduce yourself in whatever way you wanna introduce yourself.

 and I'm just gonna, I'm going to, you know, start ,, where you write ended, the interesting about this book for me is, you know, I've heard other people talk about this experience before, but it did feel like something that kind of came through? It wasn't an effort thing. It wasn't all that kind of thing.

But what's fascinating is I didn't realize until I published that the book was here to teach me not the other way around. And so I'm not a huge believer in thought leaders and experts just because to me, I. You know, we're all mutual learners on this planet, discovering things side by side together. But it was more of a mic drop for me because the lessons themselves, to your point, I have gone back to, you know, I can tell you times from last weekend or the weekend before that I was in my own battle of not enough versus enough.

And the difference is I feel like through the gift of the book, I've just been given constructs. For myself to help sort these things out and to have clarity. So, um, so all that said, I'm like delighted to have this conversation. 'cause I feel like it's a, point of discovery more than anything else.

And, uh, what to say about me, I mean, um, we were talking before the episode, so I'll just, , kind of introduced in a different way in some ways. So, uh, yes, I do coaching and I do consulting, and I do training, and I do all those kinds of things. But at my heart, you know, the things that I love are the exploration of life.

you know, I have had the blessing of being all around the world, and, Studying a lot of world faiths and different religions. I love women's leadership. I love nature. I love really at the core, the connectedness of all of us as humans and the potentiality. We have to truly, um, have beauty and peace with each other.

And I think I. That's part of it, whether I'm in business settings or personally or just riffing with a friend at a coffee shop. It's how can that happen? , And I'm gonna reference back to Christina's, uh, solo episode, uh, when she was talking about, uh, um, the enough part of, you know, do I need this much jewelry?

And being on a boat in Cambodia and sharing it. People like, to me, that's the beauty of life right there, right? That is the magical moment. We think it's something else. But, um, having any kind of interactions where we can create those spaces of connection and contribution to each other brings me great sustenance, hope, you know, possibilities for what's ahead and.

You know, part of that involves also looking at the constructs that we currently , operate according to, and realizing it's just bs, it just happens to be one model of a million models that we were framed with. And so there's enough, not enough. I mean, , you'll hear a little bit, but enough, she entered my life, I mean, as a true character and has been teaching me and, I think it's, it's one way to look at things in order to.

Not just honor what we have, but bring us closer, connect and honor what really matters. 

Yeah. Beautifully said, beautifully said. By the way, are you my twin? Like everything about you? Well, I that when I 

was 

listing your solo podcast, I'm like, you did too. Are, are you kidding me? Like love to travel, spiritual seeker, like curious about all religions and Yeah.

You know, like just. 

We may have to do a whole separate show just on that, because you know, I know as we discover each other, it's like, oh my goodness. As we Totally, 

yeah. We've already decided Barbara's gonna come on and , we're gonna do some co-hosted episodes together because, um, yeah.

Uh, , we're gonna play aligned, we're gonna play together and you guys get to come along too. Yeah. We love it. I wanna start with chapter one. Um, I'm gonna read a little bit. 

Yep. 

This is just very, very sweet because it kind of sets the tone for, um, the book. So on a warm June day, six months after giving notice at my job and making the choice to launch my own business, I placed a bucket of chalk on the city sidewalk in front of my home in Chicago.

. I wrote, please write and draw, and made a few colorful shaded circles to get the ball rolling. The avalanche that followed over the months to come, kept taking my breath away. And it's such a cute story, um, about all these people that come along and stop. Mm-hmm. They stop, you know, and people with kids, like maybe -, the parents are on their phone and the kids start.

Like drawing. And then the, and the parents join in and put their phone away for a few minutes. And also the part about, I'm gonna read another little part. Mm-hmm. Like Tibetan monks clearing their painstakingly created sand mandala. Like, so if you don't know what that is, guys, sometimes these monks will create these beautiful creations out of sand and like in color.

But then of course. They're just sand so they get destroyed. Um, okay, so lemme start again. Like Tibetan monks clearing their painstakingly created sand mandala. Mother nature would periodically rain down and cleanse the entire canvas. Rather than feeling sad about the erased artwork, I eagerly looked forward to the new creations waiting to be birthed from the blank slate of future passersby.

And then this last one, um, I have underlined, , I've marked up the entire book and highlighted and taken notes. This is why I like love having books in a world where we seek so desperately to belong that we end up othering. People who don't look like us, act like us, think like us, or vote like us.

I found the chalk experience unifying and hopeful. So can you tell us a little bit more about that? 

It's so funny when you were just explaining that because again, I live in Chicago and we just had rain and, and we just put the shock out for the spring. So this has been years now, couple years under our belts.

But uh, you know, 48 hours ago , um, and I always try to take pictures. There were big hearts and you know, love notes and all these things that were just filled in the sidewalk after we put the chalk out. And then of course we had big downpours, you know, 'cause we're in the Midwest. And it's blank.

And this morning when I, I had dropped my uh, uh, daughter at school and I drove by and sure enough already, even with a wet chalk, somebody put their name with two hearts next to it. And I just was like, again, it's moving. 'cause these are people we don't know. But here we are having these. You know, and I say this in the book, but it's like the shared pictures on our hearts, right?

It's not how we normally meet each other. We meet each other with our titles, our importance, our, you know, buzz, our pitch, our whatever it is. And this is different, right? And sometimes it's anonymous and sometimes we, you know, discover each other that way. But, you know, the, place that had moved me the most was , the story that you started where.

You know, this little boy, I was hidden on my porch taking notes on my laptop, and this little boy, I could hear him. They couldn't see me, him and his,  parent, but he had been marking up, chatting with himself, you know, having this whole conversation after kind of convincing his parent to pause. Right.

I. And I'm thinking, oh, you know, I have kids. So I'm like, oh, I'm sure it's like a scribble. I'm sure it's a doodle that he thinks as a dog, but you wouldn't be able to identify. And I walk down and I see that he has taken these colorful circles. I did. And he literally put rings around them like planets.

  again, , I love nature. So the first time I saw pictures of space that were all those colors and Beau like it is artwork and. I literally, it was like a shock to, so I had this felt sense, like I got moved to tears and my body had this experience of feeling enfolded, feeling like literally.

I was being hugged, you know, because it was just so poignant and so beautiful and so possible. And so that movement, that was, you know, where the book kind of started because I said that's that sense of enough, like she entered my life as a real character that, um, started teaching me right. But that chalk experience, I mean, I cannot even tell you the quantity of amazing things that have come from that.

You know, I've had people stop me and say, Hey, , I'm your night artist. Like, we've seen cartoon comics, you know, things on there that are clearly like somebody who has talent, right? So you'll see that, or you'll see Professions of Love, or you'll see, you know, the other one was when they, we put it out, it was Happy Saturday everybody.

You know, there is just this shared common greeting, you know, of the stuff that really does matter , and the permanence of it. Which again, we think about, we so focus on the things, you know, you talk about your jewelry, the acquisition, these things we think we're gonna hold on to forever, you know? But that's not what matters.

You know, what matters are these experiences we share where we can really. Open ourselves up to both touch and be touched by others. And that's what that chalk experience came from. I have, you know, met so many people now who have stopped me.  , I got freaked out in the middle of the night by a man pounding on my door.

But he so apologetic 'cause his dog had kicked over the glass jar that the chalk was in and he wanted to replace it. I've had, um, people literally have just. Donated a thing of chalk and put it out there that I don't even know who they are, just because they have seen this whole expression happening.

And again, as you quoted, like it just gives me so much hope about, at the core of our hearts, how much we have in common, which that's the gold to me, right? And it doesn't mean like I love things, don't get me wrong. I love them. I love luxury things, I love all those kinds of things, but. Not as a replacement for this, you know, as something I savor, treasure, or think fondly of lovely, but not in order to experience the feeling that I have with enough, which this chalk experience just kicked off for me so profoundly.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, every chapter is different topics and they're so golden. Chapter two is called Death by Comparison, not Enough, and underneath it, in quotes, I wrote, get Off the Ladder.

And you share that chapter with us and the whole ladder experience. This I wanna share with my audience. You guys, when I first read this chapter, I went, well, yeah, duh. Of course, yes. You know, there's somebody at the top of the ladder, you know, and then a few days went by and it started sinking in and sinking in and sinking in.

And I went, oh my gosh, like. . I feel so different. I feel so different. I wanna be off the ladder. I'm just gonna step off of it. I don't have to be the best. Yeah. You know, I love your beautiful story about. You know, , \ I'm not gonna be in the choir because I'm not the best singer. Yeah. And like,  you know all the birds in the woods, which I say in my solo episode, if everybody said, Joe is the best bird, he's the best bird singer in the forest.

so he's the only one that's gonna ever, ever gonna sing. We don't, wouldn't that be sad? Yeah. What a miss. That what a, you know, we wanna hear all the birds and all their voices, and some are better than others And this is a game changer in how we think about ourselves and how we conduct ourselves in our everyday lives.

And it, kind of permeated my brain over, a, few days, but, , tell us more about the latter. 

Well, and I just wanna say to that quote, it's a Henry Van Dyke quote, um, that I saw as a kid in a postcard on a vacation. And it moved me again, I was in my adolescence, but it said, you know, and I won't get it exactly right, but use what talents you possess.

The woods would be silent if no bird sang, except those that sang the best. And I think about that. Like I can hear bird song, you know where we are, even though we're in the city, there are plenty of birds around. And you think about that if you had one going versus the true beauty of the orchestra that you hear.

There would be a huge miss. Right? But I had realized the realization and again, that the, um, concept is this ladder of comparison and what really struck me, you know, all of these lessons are the things I was facing and continue to face, right? So I would look at myself and I'd have. Some amazing success on something and then all of a sudden I'd see someone better and I would be like in the toilet again.

It's like you literally just spiraled down and I thought, what's going on here? What is this about? And again, I say in the book, there's different kinds of comparison, but if the kind that we're doing has that effect, so if I compare myself to someone or something out there and I feel afterward. Less than demotivated, you know, all those kinds of things.

Then it is not healthy for my system. But what really struck me was how often I was doing it in the real cost of it, which is why I ended up titling the chapter Death by comparison, because I believe it's the death of dreams and possibilities and hopes. Like I could have probably sang a ton in my youth in formal ways, had I.

understood that better at that time. But this concept of the ladder is really realizing, comparison is always one up, one down, right? So the, visual I say is imagine there's a ladder on the earth and it's stretch up infinitely, almost, you know, because everybody only gets to stand on one rung.

So if we're looking at the money ladder, the ladder of wealth. You know, someone's on the very bottom, someone's on the very top if we were literally ranking their net worth in the way that we measure it. But really realizing that, and again, it came to me because a, friend had come into some significant money and \ had leaned over and sort of acknowledged in a very, a self-reflective way.

Because the kind of money that he came into would've been like a lottery jackpot to most people. And he said, you know what's weird is that compared to the people I'm hanging out with, I'm on the poor side. And it was just mind blowing to me to realize, right. Because I would've been thinking there's nothing else in life if I had gotten what he got.

Right. Right. And that's when I really realized, like that comparison never. Stops. It just never stops because there's always somebody with more or less, right? \ So looking up the ladder is not healthy because it just causes me to criticize myself. But looking down the ladder doesn't work. 'cause it causes me to have a fake superiority out of my own inferiority, right?

And so. You know, when I was thinking about this, and again, the truth is if you imagine this ladder, it's not stable. Like at the very top, you got one of the wealthiest people, the wind blows and that their stock market changes and all of a sudden they're. Kicked off or further down, like you count your whole ladder on beauty.

Like that's what the thing is. And I loved, in your solo episode, you were talking about even aging, right? So if that's what I stake everything on and my value, and that's what I'm comparing myself to, and all of a sudden natural aging happens, or I get in a car accident, who am I? Do I even get to exist? Do I have any value?

Because I've hung it all up on that ladder. Right? And what I have found for myself, and I love that you wrote that and underlined it, the only answer is to get off the ladder that like there's no winning. On the ladder. And so just like we said at the beginning where this book started teaching me, it's not that I don't ever get on the ladder, I just notice because I've got this framework and I go, oh honey, there you are.

Look at you. 

That's where I'm at. Like, I'm catching, let's pop off. Yeah. Like I catch myself. That's the, beauty of this chapter is you read it and you think that was good, and then all of a sudden, a few days later you're going something is. Majorly changed in me because I catch myself jumping on that ladder, you know, and then I'm like, oh, oh, oh, oh, wait.

Nah, I need to get off that ladder. 

You know? And I, and I think to that point, like no concepts, , when you study spirituality and faiths and things like that, and you understand like. In some ways there's nothing new under the sun. Right? Right. In some ways, these core concepts can go back to the earliest of human self-reflecting, but I do think still it's useful for us to find our own ways to wrap ourselves around them and figure out how in the world that we're in right now, how do I live that with integrity?

How do I orient to that? Because it is not hard. We can know. You know, these things cognitively, but actually living a life where I'm not please, I am still in that process 

And we always will be to some, we always will be, otherwise we're not 

human. Yeah. We'll have, you know, elevated, floated up to Nirvana and Bliss, but I'm not there and I chose this for a reason 

and, and I also love in that chapter how you say.

Like even if you are at the top of the ladder. Yeah. Like, let's say the top of the ladder, the top cyclist in the world. Yeah. Well, you're not the top baker in the world. Yes. You're not, you're not the top, um, artist in the world. you know, and that was really cool too. I, it was like very liberating for me.

Like, I felt like,  oh yeah. we all are good at things and not good at things. And it, yeah, It's given me more permission to be more  feel more comfortable Right where I'm at. 

Yes. Well, and the interesting thing for me, and I love that you just used that word because that's exactly the word I have been quoting for myself, is permission.

What's interesting is the more I increasingly accept that I am good just as I am. The more it gives me permission to do things I would never have thought of doing. Like last year I did a one-woman show. I wrote it, I performed it. I would never have done that ever, ever, ever. Because who am I? I am not a trained actress.

I'm not this, I'm not that. But as enough became truly like a roommate in my life, it's like. Okay, that's irrelevant again, in that letter of comparison, it doesn't even matter if I'm on the ladder of actresses for some reason, I feel like expressing that thing, it feels important to me, so why not?

Right? So I think there's an tremendous permission that opens doors to like vistas of possibilities. , And you said it in, in your even intro of, you know what this podcast is about. oftentimes we come to these places in our fifties or forties that we have these decisions, but we don't need to wait that long.

Like if I understand that there's so much out there, you know, to use my twenties as a time to completely play an experiment, rather than thinking, oh, I have to, you know, measure myself based on somebody else's success. It breaks my heart when I'm talking to somebody young who is putting themselves down, who is incredibly talented because.

Their podcast doesn't have X number of episodes or there dah, dah, dah, dah. Like what a waste of our life force. 

Yeah. Yeah. So good. So good. And I love also in chapter two, how you say. I find that people are more ambitious if they get off the ladder. 

Yeah. How 

fun. How fun is that? Yeah. It's like divine dichotomy.

Yes. I always love that term. It's divine dichotomy. Yeah. Yeah. So here you are saying, I'm gonna let go. Of trying to be the best and competitive and be ambitious, and you get off the ladder and that spark ignites even more. 

Yeah. Well, and I remember this , I'm sure you have had some similar experiences, but when I started my business, there were a few people who had asked me questions, but almost from an old framework, right?

They're from a traditional framework of how one succeeds at business and what that looks like and all that kind of stuff. So they would ask me those standard questions about your metrics or your numbers or all those kinds of things. And you know, increasingly as as that sense of enough became part of my life, I realized like I don't even need to answer.

Like, you are playing a game. I'm not playing. , You have a certain mindset and a model of something you're going about, and I think it's beautiful and lovely. It's not mine and I, and I think in some ways that, you know, we will talk about being, you know, everyone's unique and all that kind of stuff, but I don't think we really live into that because again, if we understood that fully, then you know, my job is not to be doing what someone else is doing.

It's quite the opposite. It's to tune in so deeply and so profoundly that I say. What are you trying to tell me today, you know, from myself? , What's the adventure to be had? What's the thing to explore? What is it? Right? And I think it's so easy, and that's why , the subtitle is, you know, finding peace in the world, distractions, hustle and Expectations.

Because, you know, we distract ourselves with all these other thoughts, comparisons, busyness, et cetera, so that we can't hear that voice, which again, isn't also a new concept. But there was a way these frameworks began to operate within me physically, that it's like. I mean, I'm so excited for whatever's coming next for me and you know, yeah, I'm mid fifties and I feel like my life is just starting.

What a joyful opportunity. You know? What a beautiful gift to have in some ways, and I think in, in many ways, like I just want more people to know younger so they don't have to wait. 

I totally agree with you. , And also don't use the excuse that you're of your age. 'cause I'm mid fifties too, and it's like, come on.

Like you can do, you can totally reinvent yourself at any time. Yeah. You know, sometimes we have different times in our faces in our life and that's okay too sometimes. You know, I think I was good about accepting certain things at certain times in my life where Yeah. You know, my late husband got ill and I was a caregiver and I was a mom.

And that was pretty much it. And yeah, I was okay with that. Like I somehow got, was at peace with it, which is good. Yeah, yeah. You know, different phases, different times. It's okay. And I like to, um, I wanna bring up too about chapter two, um, you said I discovered that choosing not to change is a completely valid choice also.

Yes. I added 

also on the end there 'cause just in context. Um, but I wanted to discuss that because. we are all on this hamster wheel, and I'm like, Hmm, um, I'm loving that. There's also times we need to just completely,  maybe not change at all. 

And this, as you mentioned it in your solo episode, you know, I have been a seeker my whole life.

You know, I've done lots of personal development, I've done all these kinds of things. I think they're wonderful, but there's a context for that, right? And the danger of it is the context that like, , once again, that can become its own ladder. I have to be better, I have to be thinner, I have to be healthier.

I have to, whatever it is, and you get to this place when you stop playing that game to go, wait, who said I actually have to change anything? Like if I am fat right now, what is wrong with that? Like, what is the profound wrong reason? Like people can have their moralistic things about it. Maybe you wanna get healthier because you know, wanna live longer.

That's all a choice, right? But it's almost like we've taken the choice away. And so to really realize that, yeah, no,. I really could choose not to make any more money that I'm making. I could choose not to work one more hour. I could choose not to be better, anything. I could really just relax into a moment of that space.

And I think for me, as I understood that permission, as I understood all the options were available, I had never considered that not changing was one of the options. I just, it was never on my radar screen. And so for me that was a mic drop. Like 

, It was a mic drop for me too. Yeah. That it's okay maybe to not change anything.

Sometimes. 

Well, and part of, I remember I was, uh, looking for a quote in, I have an online journal that I used. You know, inconsistently, but I was looking for something I had written and I had searched it. And what came back, you know, you get your results and it's an imperfect search. So there were, you know, probably 60 different results.

But just by scanning the headlines of these personal journal, I realized, holy cow, how much time I have wasted criticizing myself, my body, like I just saw in a blink. what percentage of pain. Was expressed in that I, in that moment, 'cause I wasn't feeling that way in that moment, I had more of that sense of enough.

I thought, wow, I wonder where all of that energy and joy could have gone , because it takes energy to criticize ourself. It takes energy to drag ourselves down. If that energy were redirected into playing, having fun, singing, dancing, enjoying friends, there's a lot of time that was invested in that that I didn't understand.

There was another option I. 

Yeah. Wow. So beautifully said. Um, so also in chapter two, can you break down and talk a little bit more about the big C comparison and the little C comparison? 

Yeah. Well, part of it was thinking about like, is comparison always wrong? 'cause again, I titled it Death by comparison, right?

I do think there are little C's and Big C's, so little C's is like, I might go to a workshop and I see someone present a keynote and I do a lot of public speaking and I might go, wow, I love how they phrase that. I love their comfort with their body. I love their personal stories, I love the visuals they use and that inspires me to then adapt something like that.

Try it out, experiment. Like that's a little c comparison. And the example I give in the book, it's like as if the floor is, a half inch shorter and you happen to notice it. But it has no moral charge to it. It's just, oh, that's interesting. Right. And I have observed athletes in that way who compare, watch tape, look at themselves vis-a-vis their competitors and use it to motivate themselves.

Right. So I say those are the little c comparisons. Those aren't the ones that do the harm. Right. And my litmus test is, you know, again, how do you feel afterward if I'm, comparing myself for a competitor and. Demotivates me. It, makes me more depressed, more bummed out, et cetera. Then that is a big C comparison, and we need to just walk away from that, you know?

Um, it's just that as I, again, in my own self-reflection, I realized the majority mine are the big Cs. The majority of mine that take up that energy and that upset are, oh my gosh, she's cute or smarter, more successful, da da da da, da da. None of that served. If it's served, I'd say go for it. Right. But those other little C comparisons where it's like, oh, I love how she positioned that thing.

I think I might wanna try that out. Lovely. Go for it. There's no problem with that one. But we gotta make the distinction. Right. Right. So it's, I think it's probably a caveat to my title, death by comparison, assuming we're talking about the Big C comparison. Big 

C comparison. Yeah. I thought it was so important to bring up those distinctions because like what you said\, if we can use comparison as a tool, it can be really, really powerful, but we gotta watch it.

How are we feeling after we've done that? , If we're not feeling good about ourselves, then we need to stop, 

right? Yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so good. So chapter three, I loved two because , you were talking a lot about personal development. So it is titled Change as an Option, not an Imperative Enough.

And we briefly touched on this a little bit too. Yeah. Like, okay, , maybe it's okay to just be fine with where I'm at. Today. Yeah. Do I always have to be reinventing myself? Do I always have to be doing better in, you know, improving? Maybe it's, a rest season. and that's okay too. And I really resonated.

Um, okay. Actually, let me read, this little quote here too. Look younger, get a faster car, lose weight. Meditate, make millions, upgrade your house. Get another house. Be healthy, be conscious, be a better friend, parent, sibling, citizen. Fix the world. They need to change. Okay, let's see. Be conscious.

Okay. Will Will's my editor. I talked to him, so he, he's not listening right now, but he'll mm-hmm. Will, will. I'm starting over again. Be conscious. Be a better, I'm starting in the middle. Mm-hmm. So just, you know, will you just, you'll fix it. Be a better friend, parent, sibling, citizen. Fix the world. They need to change.

You need to change. We all need to change something. Most things. Anything. Everything. Oh my gosh. I just 

wanted to cry. 

It's, yeah, here we are, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been feeling like. Crying easily too lately. And I wonder if it has to do with your book. Well, you know, I mean, and it's in and it's in a good way, like it's a healthy release.

but I'm not exactly in tune with what's going on. 

Well, and I think there's something for me, like where I'm recording the audio book, right. Or I just finished recording it. I'm listening to it for edits. But there's a couple times where I choke up a bit and, my editor is like.

Find good. Great. Like that's your authenticity. Don't make a thing on it. But, but what I realized is it's when those things really strike so close to my heart that I feel it. So just as I listen to you read that, you know, what I feel is that scramble of not enough that I have spent a lot of my energy and life doing and knowing now that there's another possibility, you know, I just wanna grab that girl and hug her and say, honey.

You can if you want. And you don't have to. And you don't 

have to. 

You're magnificent as you are. And I think that's the thing that moves me right, is like we could do that thing. It's one of the choices. And you're, you are magnificent as you are, and that doesn't mean you don't get to change things. And I think this is the nuance in that chapter is again, my experiences, the more that I've given myself permission not to, you know, it's just like we were talking about sometimes the more ambitious you are, but.

If I choose to change something, it has a whole different context and come from, right? So even now with me, with my body, it's like, you know, I was somebody who I was either exercising or not. It's like a binary thing and I'm either driving myself or I'm not right. And the more that I get comfortable with enough, there is this, so many possibilities in the middle of that.

So I could just be in the morning or at the end of the night and just move my body. And it doesn't have to follow anyone's yoga routine. , But like I did a whole, you know, uh, a series of meditation classes, you know, through a guru who I think is fantastic. But I, finally stopped doing 'em 'cause I realized it had become one more rigid to do.

This was no longer a place of peace and enjoyment. If I didn't then. Like even meditation, so, so any, 

you can apply 

it to anything, you know, anything. I applied 

it. This is just so much fun 'cause I keep talking about where I'm applying it to. So, uh, one of my girlfriends, I did Pilates for a number of years and then stopped doing it for a number of years, got busy and one of my girlfriends just invited me to her small little class and I decided to go and I was like, oh my gosh, I love this so much.

Yes. 

So I signed up for another one, went without her. There was just like four or five people in the class, and it was level one. Mm-hmm. Beginner. And I love the instructor because. Um, she just comes from a place of just enjoying the journey of Yes. You know, and just wherever you're at is great.

Yes. Wherever you're at. She said she's even stopped counting reps, like, so, you know, like instead of counting reps and saying, we're gonna do this, many of this exercise, she just says, we're gonna do. Between 10 and 15, and then we're just, you know, and then she'll talk us through it and you know, if you get really tired, take a rest and then keep going.

Yeah. And it made me just wanna come back again and again and again because. And you know, it's funny because she was saying, well, you know, Christina, you could actually do level two and this and that. And I'm like, this is so much fun doing level one. Like , why would I like, you know, I'm just like, , I don't want it to be a miserable workout experience.

I want to enjoy it. And maybe, maybe it's not. According to fitness standards. Maybe it's not enough. I don't know. Like I don't care. But actually it is. I'm sure it's enough. I'm sure it is. It's fun  but I'm just able to work at my own level a hundred percent. And I think the. Book. Just having read your book really, really helped me.

Like I was making jokes and laughing and in the class 'cause they were rather serious, everybody else. So I think, I'm probably meant to be there to kind of loosen everybody up a 

little. When 

you 

think about that, like think about the qualitative difference, like what's the framework? If the framework of moving to the next Pilates class and achieving it is because, 'cause 'cause I have to change.

I'm not enough. I gotta get better. I gotta, whatever. Then you lose sometimes that total joy exploration, total joy felt, I'm just looking out the window 

at the bamboo, like it's a beautiful forest 

outside. 

Like it's just like, and 

if your heart lept it, like, wow. Yeah, I can't wait to try something harder.

Then that would be the move to make. Totally. Yes. But if that's not what's moving your heart and what you're enjoying and the pleasure of it, then you risk missing all of that. Right? Yeah. And again, I think that's the piece of it, like 

yeah, 

what is the internal place that is calling to me at that time?

And we're so deaf to it is the problem. Yeah. Because we're looking outside to say, well, everybody else is, you know, this is the comparison. Again, everybody else is doing the next level Pilates. Anybody who's smart would do the next level plot. Well, she tapped me individual, like that's our brain, right.

That isn't enough. Enough is like, huh? Is it fun? Are you loving it? Is it fun? Is it stretching? Is it loving? Is that a best kind of uncomfortable? 

Yeah, and it was like slightly uncomfortable. And a lot of this is the studio that I went to it, so , I'm at a really fantastic studio that's allowing me to work at my own pace so that you know, I am working on getting more flexible because it feels good. It feels good to be more flexible, but I'm doing it at my own pace. I'm not killing myself doing it. 

Yeah. Well, and it sounds like you're doing it for you, like you are at the hundred percent. The comparison's not at the center of that.

No. I think that's the difference where, and this is where starting in this change chapter, there's more things similarly that I have chosen to change, but my perspective on it isn't out of. Having to be any different than I am, it's actually out of accepting where I'm at and then deciding what would bring me joy.

So would more strength bring me joy? I get to lift weights. I get to, you know, I don't have to because there's something wrong with me. But I get to feel strength in my body. I get to experience a stretch. I get to try something I haven't done, you know, two times in the last month traveling for work at these funny little hotels.

I've gotten in the pool and swam now. Like I'm not a lapse person., That has never been a thing for me. But similar to the singing, because I'm not, I ruled myself out from ever getting in the pool when I was at a hotel, you know, unless I was with my kids or something. Well, how dumb is that?

Right? So I was like, I'm just gonna get in there and play and try. Well, I loved the feeling, 'cause , both times in these hotels I've been by myself and I've just let myself go back and forth with no agenda, nothing. And I feel good and it's fun, you know? But I would've ruled that out. There's something said about, I'm not a swimmer.

Yeah, there's something we said about the no agenda, and I think you, talk about that too and or I've been reading about it too, like take a walk with no agenda. Um, so yeah, I talked about 

wanders instead of walks. 

Yeah, yeah. Wondering that takes the agenda away. Yes. Yes. And I think, um, that's why like,  the Pilates is ridiculously fun is that  I have a very small agenda.

It's just like to get a little bit stronger and more flexible and that's it. And I just push myself to the level that's fun and comfortable for me. 

Well, and there's so much freedom in that. 'cause again, what I started doing is like I was starting to walk again, enjoying being out, enjoying being in nature.

But then all of a sudden I'm counting all my steps compulsively every day. Yes. And you're right back on the treadmill. That's it. And then so it was literally like, and I was looking at my little like heart update thing on the iPhone every 15 minutes. No, you know, and so I had to stop because it was like, wait a minute, what's going on here?

and my, friends will know this, my husband, I'm like, I'm gonna go wander. And there isn't an agenda, there's no timeframe, et cetera. But I may end up doing it more or less. It doesn't matter. But what I'm out doing is breathing the air, seeing the nature, enjoying the physical movement of my body.

I'm doing the same thing. And sometimes more, but the framework is different. 

Yeah. Right. 

Yeah. It's not, 'cause I gotta. I gotta get somebody who steps in 'cause. Less steps is bad. 

Yeah. Yeah. And chapter three also, again, like, oh, it resonated so strongly because you talked a lot about personal development and Yeah, I know.

We all know that person and, and or have been that person. Um, been that one, yeah, been that one. And also see it in so many people where. Um, it's never enough. Okay. I need to pay more money for yet another course to make myself better. I need to read yet another book, which is so ironic because I'm like, I feel like this is already dogeared you guys.

If I had to pick one book in my life right now. \. This is it. Please. I think it's like 20 years ago, this book wouldn't, have resonated. Yeah. It, it wasn't needed. Ditto. Yeah. But right now this is. Really, I think a key to our happiness. \, It's a key. 

Well, when you were just saying even about in that personal development, like I have been, I said I'm a seeker and that has been a lot of personal development, consumption over the years.

But the one that really struck me again as the book was, you know, developing itself as it were, was this notion of like, I have to be more conscious. Again, I love spirituality, I love exploration, but like. When it finally struck me that that was a lack of acceptance for where I am, that that consci consciousness, lack of acceptance.

Okay, 

let's, wait. lack of acceptance of where I am. I think we're all, or most of us are pretty stuck in that. Yeah, I just, sorry, sorry to interrupt you, but like, that's just so powerful. No, it's lovely. And again, I 

think, so on the one hand,  the reason I love spiritual exploration is I do believe underneath everything there's a core of commonality.

You know, it manifests a bunch of different ways, but at the core, there is just this thing about love and this thing about understanding everybody's reflection of us and sharing that and receiving it, like at the core, right? Mm-hmm. And so to catch myself and realize. I'm on a letter of comparison about consciousness, misses the whole point of what I say I believe.

In spirituality, what I believe is about love. Well, you know, that unconditional love would mean there is no problem right now. , I feel like I gotta do something different because of blah, blah, blah, blah. Fill in the blank. But doesn't that defeat the whole purpose? And you know, I loved your said, your divine contradiction.

You know that term there it was. Yeah. Oh, do I need to be more conscious, more conscious, more conscious? And the answer is, well, no. I can. It's always an option. It's always an option. I get to choose that. I get to keep it on the list. But I don't have to. 

Yeah. Beautifully said. I love that so much. And yeah, just, you know, uh, personal development couldn't be anything.

Like we're talking about it on a spiritual level. 'cause we both, I think, have been spiritual, uh, junkies. Yes. Where we can just get like, yeah, I have to read more books. I have to take that class. So that I can develop myself better spiritually. Yes. And then we, you know, and again, you know, like I am taking a little course right now and I'm taking it at my own pace.

Yeah. You know, even though we, we meet up as a group once a week, online but I'm just like, hmm. I'm doing it in my pace and, um, it's really, really slow. It's a really slow pace for me right now, and that's the only way I'm doing it. 

Well, even for me, like , I remember having a mic drop moment in my late youth, um, where I realized like I didn't have to stay at a movie.

Like if I , went to a movie theater and the movie started and then I realized I didn't like it. I always thought I had to finish it. You know, I always thought if I started a book, I had to finish it, right? Yes, yes. But in this place of., I would still do a class, I'd still do whatever, but it has to be profoundly driven from that core of self-acceptance and enoughness.

Right, right. Not the other way around. Yeah. If I catch myself feeling scarce and driven about it, then it's probably not a fit for me right now. Mm-hmm. But if it feels like, wow, I can't wait to dial on that course and have a conversation and self-reflect. Well then that's lovely. Right? It's just that I had gotten so compulsive about it that again, , it was another game I had set myself up to never quite arrive at that space of enough.

Yeah. , I totally resonate with it and I've been in that space as well. Um, so a quote from chapter three, embracing choice and making a Choice Not to change means I increasingly build my muscle of acceptance. Mm-hmm. Love that sentence. Mm-hmm. So beautiful. Yeah. And, it's like if 

I say I don't have to, then it almost reinforces that you're good as you are.

Yeah. And again, 

it doesn't mean, I have to say, I don't have to, it's just an option on the table. 

Right, right, right. So we have only gotten through chapter three and there are 12 chapters to this book. I feel like we have covered , so many powerful things in today's episode. It's a lot you guys.

So I would say, even if you're listening now, I'm going, oh, I want more.\. I wanna listen to more. Okay. We'll have Barbara come back. Barbara, will you come back? 

I absolutely be a total honor. 

Okay. Awesome. So that being said, I want you guys, if you're feeling that way. Go back and listen to this episode again because you'll get more out of it.

This book, this concept, this whole way of living is a game changer. And it will increase your joy, your happiness. I do believe it is one of the , key tools towards increasing our happiness, our joy, our contentment, all of that. But we'll unpack more of it as we go along. So we're gonna end today.

Any last words for today, Barbara? 

You know, , my only last comment I'll say is, first of all, what an honor to be on here. And, you know, I think the exact impetus of the book is this kind of a moment, right? Where, um, you know, we talk about the latter of comparison. This is such the opposite. You know, I, I wish everyone of your listeners, I mean, they are kind of with us, right?

They're, but the experience that is created out of this, like my heart feels more expanded, I feel more seen, I feel like I matter more. I'm more uplifted. And so I just wanna say thank you for giving me a dose of enough today, in the middle of my day. And yes, I'm delighted to continue the conversation. 

Yep.

Yes, because this is a great example of enough where I, you know, I have guests on, I think they're incredible. We could go on for hours, but listeners can only absorb, you guys can only absorb. ,. But you do best when you have. You know, a small chunk at a time, and then you take that and you kind of marinate it in it and listen to it again, go back to it, and it works so beautifully.

So I'm so ridiculously excited. That we're gonna continue this journey, Barbara, who knew that this would just not be just like a one-off interview and how fun. 

I 

know. How fun is it? Um, I cannot emphasize enough, you guys, that this book has changed my life. Okay. Just trust me on it. I've never said that about a book that I, and I've had so many authors, as you guys know, but just trust me on it. Um, I would say get the book. Get the book, you know, but if nothing else, listen to these podcasts because they will change your life. And I get people , telling me that about various episodes.

Hey, I listened to this episode and it changed my life. It literally changed my life. People tell me that. Yeah. 

So, and for those listeners listening to her solo episode made me go buy another book that I'm like inspired by. So ditto. 

I love it. Yeah. All right. Well this has been amazing. I. And we're so excited.

Thank you. I'm deeply honored to have you, Barbara, on my podcast, and I can't believe how wise you are , so I'm so excited that we're going to be able to share more of your wisdom with my audience. 

Thank you. I appreciate it.

 Thank you for joining us on the She's Brave Podcast with Christina Driscoll. I hope today's episode inspired you to embrace your courage and step boldly into your own journey. If you enjoyed the show, we'd love to hear from you. Please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform.

Your feedback not only helps us improve, but also allows more brave souls like you to discover the show. Don't forget to follow us on social media for updates and join our vibrant community. Connect with me on Instagram. At She Brave Podcast, or check out my website at www.shebravepodcast.com. If you're interested in learning more about podcasting, join my Facebook group, facebook.com/groups/podcast mastery journey.

Until next time, stay brave, be bold, and keep shining.